Eternal Flame Haste Builds – How to value your stats *Expanded*

Updated Stat Wt.s

Haste has some hot curves! Max Sexy at 55%.

How to read the above chart:

At each haste level Mastery and Haste have different stat weights.  Intellect has been equalized to 1.

What we see is Mastery gains stat weight at each EF break point.  It never over takes Intellect but it can be up to 82% of a intellect.  Since gems are 2:1 secondary stats to primary stats there is no reason to pass up on secondary stats when gemming.

Haste starts out being the best stat by far.  As we pass each break point it looses value.  But we have to assess it in two different ways:

  1. Haste that goes past a break point.
  2. Haste points that don’t pass a break point.

For haste gains that cross a BP it is the best stat from 25%-45% outright and then from 45% to 55% it is less than intellect but more than mastery.  From 55% to 65% it is our worst stat.

If you are at 25% haste and you add haste to a level that does not go to 35% its value is still great, about equal to intellect.  Same for 35% to 45%.  At 45% haste is less than mastery and that trend continues at 55% where haste becomes abysmal.  So if you are stuck between break points you can rely on Haste > Mastery below 45% haste.  Above 45% haste Mastery > Haste.  Again, for values that don’t cross the next BP.

In terms of pure math and output, 55% haste BP will give the largest HPS but not beyond 55%, however after 45% mastery is nearly the same as haste.  Thus the gain of going from 45% to 55%, although real, is small and because mana is already a concern 45% is probably the best BP.  That being said with higher iLvL’s I may give 55% a try.  Lastly, per stat point Intellect is the best stat, but gems are not a 1 to 1 ratio and thus going pure Intellect just doesn’t add up.

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8 Responses to Eternal Flame Haste Builds – How to value your stats *Expanded*

  1. Akycha says:

    Hey there,

    Thanks for the clarification. I’m currently not well itemized and I’m running a 55% haste BP build. 2 things on this:
    A. I sacrificied nearly all my mastery to get to 55%
    B. My mp5 is not high enough to actually be viable for this, but I’ll try it anyways.

    What I noticed from our Garrosh normal kill yesterday is that the healing is insanely fast. It feels much faster than 45%. But it is like you said: my mana just disappears like snow in the summer (14k spirit might not be enough for this).

    The thing is, I was really looking forward to my old DS build where I could stack haste endlessly. Now I don’t know what to do. I understand the downward curve after the 55% BP but does that mean we should switch back to an equilibrium of mastery = haste at 55%? I feel that striking a balance that high in the haste stat will be very hard (I ran some itemizations and the best I could get was 28% mastery buffed). I did use haste gear for this itemization so I’m not sure if it is BiS.

    What I’m wondering about is the large amount of effort it takes to maintain a mediocre balance between those stats and the effortless way of just stacking mastery. If haste has a downward curve past 55% we’ll already have lost too much mastery to make it viable again, so isn’t it better to ignore this high BP and just go for mastery all out again? I’m currently healing with another paladin who favors the 7k BP and full out mastery. Our itemlevels and skill levels are practically the same (she has a bit higher itemlevel, but on a level of skill we’ve been playing like equals for the past few months). The difference on “normal” fights (e.g. fights where raw healing isn’t vital for survival) is still “huge” being me stuck on 100k-ish and she rocking a steady 130k hps.

    An extra note, I do notice she reaches higher EF values for her heals since she uses 3 HoPo EF’s. I feel like it’s nearly impossible to reach a 3 HoPo due to the high mana cost of it (HR-HR-HS rotation for this) without losing too much time between EF casts. This means I’m back to spamming 1 HoPo EF’s which gives odd results in the parses afterwards (she being waaaaaaaaay higher on EF value than me).

    Or am I doing something completely wrong here?

    • bouchbagette says:

      At X item level you will have Y number of stats. From a Min/Max stand point you want to put your stats into the ones with the greatest value. If you have to sacrifice huge numbers of socket bonuses and spirit to achieve a theoretical max haste point you didn’t actually maximize your stats. This is from a pure stat stand point.

      As for a execution stand point, if you find that you OOM far too fast because of the high levels of haste/low levels of spirit you are better off dropping haste BP’s and bumping your spirit because a HS-HR-HR-EF rotation for 2 minutes is much less healing than the same rotation for 3 minutes. For sure it is a balancing act of rotation execution, spell substitution, and how much “oops” you have to heal.

      I am providing a guideline for the largest mathematical healing output with Y number of stats. But since we can’t simcraft bosses to death we have to apply our raid experience to the math and find a functional compromise.

      Personally I am running 45% haste BP. I can still OOM if I am too liberal with my HR so I am hesitant to go 55%. A touch more gear and I will give it a go. Current iLvL is 563 with Amp and Horridon trinket.

  2. Pallymar says:

    I’ve been healing at the 35% EF point with 17k spirit or so, using a HR-HR-HS-EF rotation and find myself just running out of mana towards the end of the fight (using 3 HP EF). I can hit a 45% EF point, but my spirit would be in the 14k range. I fear that I’ll run out of mana too quickly. What alternative approaches can you suggest that would allow me to temper my mana usage without sacrificing too much throughput? Using EF with 1 HP? 2 HP? It would let me go HR-HS-EF or something to that effect.

    • Joe Ego says:

      If you want to affect mana efficiency and longevity without adjusting Spirit then you must cast fewer and/or less expensive spells. HR-HS-EF leaves you with a gap before Shock comes off cooldown. Do you cast a Holy Light on someone who needs it? Do you sit and wait? This is why Sacred Healer allows you to drop so much Spirit; by reducing the cooldown of Holy Shock, more of your time is spent casting a dirt cheap spell.

      Casting at 1 or 2 HP does reduce your mana consumption somewhat, as you spend two to three times as many gcd’s compared to only casting 3HP Eternal Flames.

      Given your current situation, I’d suggest sticking with the 35% break and 17k Spirit. Work on reducing your consumption so you’re OK with 17k. Then step down 1k and repeat until you can get to the 45% break with whatever Spirit you have at that time. There’s no reason to reach for 45% or higher if you can’t heal through a whole fight.

      • bouchbagette says:

        Well said. I agree with most of this (Sacred healer? Sacred Shield or Selfless Healer?). Only place for 1 HP EF’s is when there is little to no damage. But honestly you are better off pooling your HP and regening mana, Holy Light has 100% to beacon and your 4.5 sec HS is ready often!

        I dont care how much Spirit and Mastery you have, HS-HR-HR-EF is not sustainable for 10 minutes on a perfectly executed rotation. People only dont have mana problems with that rotation because they break from it often.

      • Joe Ego says:

        Yes, I meant Selfless Healer. I do agree 1 HP EFs aren’t much use, especially since the Mastery change and the recent tendency for tank damage to increase when raid damage is reduced. Even if spreading those EFs would increase your hps, it’s more useful to focus on keeping the tank(s) alive.

        Me still thinking like a tank healer? Must be all that those Garosh pulls. :P

  3. kuhbus says:

    In my opinion HPS is only one aspect for going for a 35% or 45% haste Build! Speed is the other one if your are not sacrificing yout throuput to much. Emergency heals are out a lot faster … and stopping one player from dying can give the whole raid a lot more than 3k extra-HPS. Just my 5 cent …

  4. Jeddy says:

    I gone to 35% and am currently sitting at around 17.5k spirit, its tons but I cant raid because of work so havent looked much into it but I find at 35% my HPS is same as with mastery but my mana is better although I am not trying to save it or using DP on CD. Also find that I can easily get 2 HR casts in the meta gem proc which is reallly helpful. Going to try 45% haste soon when I get some better stat items as I am not raiding.

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